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[Music] [Music] you good morning everyone and thank you everyone for actually being here today to share my passion for marine electrical and electronics of course on boats we had a really good day yesterday so for some of you that were here yesterday you're gonna have a little bit more insight and what we're talking about but the feeling of being lost with electrical is commonplace to everyone all the time so yesterday I was speaking with a few people after the course and I think it's one of those things where marine electrical and I can speak just for myself I don't think I will ever truly know everything about anything and so what it is it's just a journey it's not about getting to completion it's about simply finding out and learning more about your boat so at times it's ok to feel like yeah I got this oh I learned here all right this doesn't make sense when I read electrical systems I'm also lost and I'm like ok first time it doesn't make too much sense and then I read it again maybe 6 months later and I'm like oh okay and then you figure it out and then things start because it's a concept and it needs to kind of come together and so the feeling of being overwhelmed with a boat in general and electrical specifically is normal and that's just part of the fun so I just want to emphasize that's what we're gonna be talking about overall today and don't be too disappointed if things don't all make sense right the first time so today the topic is going to be electrical and electronics fundamentals and it's gonna relay relay to what we're gonna try to figure out is how do you troubleshoot those systems on your boat so that's what we're gonna be talking about before we get started want to emphasize please cell phones if you can make sure they're on mute that'd be great ask questions I'm gonna emphasize and this is gonna be a little bit there's going to be more questions in this section because a lot of it is kind of figuring out what's going on so feel free to lift your hand if it's the right time I'll tell you or maybe I'll take it for later takes lots of notes and then as I mentioned yesterday all these slides are gonna be actually provided online so you're gonna be able to access these resources later on for the people that are joining us here today a little bit about myself wondering why I'm here talking to you about marine electrical is it because I own a boat or I've voted before I think it's a little bit more than that I've dedicated my life really it's it's a full commitment to marine electrical systems that's all I do 16 hours a day I breathe that's it I'm a complete nut for making a boat systems reliable and hopefully today you're gonna see through that the passion that I have in actually converting reliability to having a good time on the water so that when you're actually on the water you're there to enjoy it and you're not constantly dealing with the problems of having to figure out why your systems are failing and things don't work a big part of doing work on a boat is understanding that you don't want to do things on your own and do it your own way there are codes out there and I am a strong believer in actually doing things the right way the first time and maybe you think you have a better way but I would really question and ask everyone to really consider the code and to do things as the code that stipulates and to not invent their own way of doing marina electrical which I find interesting every day on boats I see it all the time but the code is there probably a really good benchmark to how to approach marine electrical and electronic systems all right so a little bit about the company we're basically focused and we're or developing our expertise Pacific yacht systems through expertise through repetition that's sort of my mantra you only get good at something if you do it over and over again so that's a big thing we work here in the Lower Mainland and Sunshine Coast and Vancouver Island so we have technicians in all those three areas and a big part of our business now is actually doing design consulting services for boaters around the world that's probably about 20% of our business now where people hire us to consult and provide or a sounding board there's kind of dreaming about what they want to do with their boats and they're like thinking oh well how am I going to do this I'm not sure and they've read a lot of on blogs but now they want to have a one-on-one conversation with someone and so we'll pair them I pair them up either with myself or some of my senior engineers and then they can start narrowing down their choices of what they're gonna actually achieve with their boat or the improvements they're gonna do on their boats and to give you an idea just last year alone or this year we did over a thousand boats so that gives you kind of the breadth and that's what I'm going to be trying to share to you today is sort of like we can worry about a lot of things when we troubleshoot but there are you know in terms of probabilities more probable things that have failed when something's not working so it's not about looking at everything you start with the most probable and then you go down the list right and you get that experience or that knowledge by actually getting invited on both all the time to fix a problem and that's really what I'm going to be sharing about today and if you're curious and you're still thirsty and you want to geek out and you want more information about mode electrical systems or electronics I invite you to go to the website or our YouTube channel we have a lot of other content related to what I'm talking about here today so it's worth rehashing that when you work on electrical systems there is a it's not like building a table there are certain elements of safety and so you want to be a little bit cognizant of those safety factors right so electricity can cause fires it's a real - threat and that's mostly how boat fires happen is through electricity right or problems on the electrical systems work within your confidence level don't just kind of like and your competence level is something that's growing right like I have for example this border that I know has no technical background so whatsoever none he's an accountant and he does tremendously good work but he also educates himself does everything himself I've never worked on his boat I just provide advice and we're talking and he gets it but he's also very thirsty for knowledge he's constantly educating himself reading blogs reading articles and then when he does something he does it well so it's not about what your your past history is if you have an interest in something I think anyone can do very well and anything that they apply themselves to and so work within your confidence level means just don't simply go there and do it educate yourself read about it figure out ask the pros ask other boaters how they've done it and then tackle the problem as opposed to just get in there and just try to hash it out and then I'm reiterating about a Bui C and M ei is very important there are standards out there the codes are well there's two ways there's 11 as a B Y C NMEA has so let me talk about the codes they're dry right so for example what you would do is you would need almost sort of like when you talk about law you meet or talk to a lawyer that sort of brings in down to a simple way for you to understand so like so for example when I was reading the Coast prior to me getting into them I was reading them through other authors so authors would summarize the codes and make it in a way that I could easily understand right because it you need sort of a translator because when you read the code this is not a novel right this is this is far from it it's very bullet driven you know it's it's it can be overwhelming so what you do is you read from authors who are only doing work based on the codes like someone like knowledge nigel Calder for example right and then he'll synthesize that information and presented to you in a way that is readily available and he might even I try to do sometimes with voters he might tell you the why because a lot of people what I find is it's hard for people to just be told what to do but if they understand why they're doing it then they're more likely to do it it's the same thing that I do with our technicians on our team I never tell them what to do I tell them why we're doing something as long as you tell them why we're doing something then the what normally follows the problem is the code Kant doesn't have any background to why they're telling you what telling you and then you see any well that's just stupid because you don't have context and so that's the challenge with reading the code per se is that there is no context to a code they don't tell you any wise it's do this and so I would say that when if you want to follow the code the easy way to do it is read from really like Don Casey whoever there's people that do really really good work and they're translating the code and making it accessible for everyday people but if you want to dig in a B YC e 11 is a really good way and NMEA has different standards we'll talk about that there's zero 100 200 300 400 our technicians go through training so these organizations will actually come down to Vancouver they'll come to the island they'll come to Seattle I remember when I did my electrical certification I went down to Seattle for five days or four days so then there's instructors that kind of bring that but again we're not studying from the book because the book is it's just instructions very hard to understand you've got a book that actually synthesizes that information puts it with context and then you learn the code the point that I always emphasize and I try to live by and our team does and I is to do it right don't make it work on about reliability is everything you're gonna depend on it if something is there you're gonna assume it's gonna be there when you need it you want to remove as much variability on your boat in surprises and by doing it right doing it properly the first time you're not going to be constantly disappointed with your both electrical systems or electronic systems where they're intermittent and nothing is more bothersome than a problem that comes and goes and if it doesn't bother you I can guarantee you it will bra bother someone on your crew there's going to be someone on that boat that will hate that something works sometimes and it doesn't work other times so we're gonna start the morning with two things we're gonna do a little bit on electrical fundamentals because that's going to help you for troubleshooting and then we're going to even at a higher level on the electronics talking about the what and then we're gonna dive in to troubleshooting both of them probably in the afternoon so I don't want to scare people here but we're just gonna try to make sense because power or connectivity is really generally the issue with most devices meaning besides a product failure a lot of times the issues are connectivity problems between those devices on your boat they're lacking power they're not getting the information they need those connectivity issues relate to electrical fundamentals or networking and we'll talk about networking a little bit later so the water analogy is an incredibly great way to think or imagine what a volt is ultimately it's about potential and it's actually used interchangeably right what's the potential and think about with a dam the height of the water behind a dam determines how fast the turma turbine at the bottom of the dam is going to turn right the deeper you dive into a swimming pool the more it hurts your eardrums there's the weight of this water column above you is bigger and bigger the deeper you go and so volts is simply about potential and this slide demonstrates that something at 12 volts is gonna have more potential power than at 1.5 volts and think about 120 volts right so the higher the potential the more power you can have all right to move that turbine so very similar to water pressure it really is very very similar and when I think about batteries and I think about batteries at different voltage levels I'm literally thinking about batteries that are putting put in parallel between different pools of water or tanks of water that are actually joined together you know what happened when you join two tanks of water that are uneven well the pipe that's connecting the both is gonna see an inrush of water too even the two tanks out right and so that is happens with electricity and if you think about that electricity is a little bit like water then what it makes you realize is it's pretty deterministic right it's not that magical like if you have you know some places have pretty intricate complicated plumbing like they've got things going everywhere are you thinking about maybe a refinery or a chemical processing plant it's not just like the pipes in your home it doesn't just it's not that simple but at the end of the day it's free it's not magic if it's done right at the beginning all everything is properly interconnected and done like a pro it's gonna work so the water analogy is a way to make yourself realize that this is not that hard it really isn't and it it's good to think in those terms whenever you think about electricity so we talked about voltage though the next thing you want to think about is okay well what about what's this thing about resistance like why does resistance matter well resistance in here is think about if this is a pipe what happens when you kink a pipe right and you think about even washing your deck on your boat and you don't have a nozzle and you put your finger at the end of the nozzle right the water because it's going through a smaller opening is gonna come out faster right there's gonna be a restriction right and so again a kink right so what would happen so resistance is something that actually is going to affect and it's going to have an infect on voltage drop and we'll talk about that and it's very important because when you have a bad connection and we see that boats that even have partially sunk or even think about you know in an engine room where maybe a water hose got undone from your impeller and sprayed salt water in the engine room and the ensuing corrosion prob so you have in your engine room where things are now intermittent you know when that water spewing in the engine room it might be going on the inverter it might be going in different places it might be going on the starter post might be going on the starter at the alternator and over time you have these complications where things aren't working well well that's because now you have corrosion and through corrosion you're gonna have voltage drop so putting it through a small pipe is sort of like a small filament right it's changing the wire size we talked yesterday we saw the difference about running you know amperage through a large wire and through a small wire and if fuse is simply a device that at one point when you exceed the ability of filament you exceed the average rating of that fuse that wire filament is simply going to blow it's gonna melt so that you don't lose the wire itself you just lose the fuse so a light bulb has a filament all right so don't be scared current which is known as I in the engineering world is voltage over resistance so abs is volts or amps om semi all right so let's take an example here you've got a 12 volt battery right and you've got a 2 ohms resistance how many amps are going to be flowing through that circuit and I want to funny it took me a long time I didn't even really get it in engineering it's incredible like some concepts they're almost like that Eureka moment where you're like oh my god I got it the resistance here is the very thing that stops this circuit from being a short circuit if you remove the light bulb from this circuit and you have nothing other than a wire and a wire does have a resistance but very little you're creating a short circuit so it's it's essential for all circuits to have a load you can't simply connect a positive and negative wire together and not expect to in ensuing fire because there's no way to limit the current going through the wire the resistance the load is what actually limits the amount of current going through that cable or wire so it is in this instance you've got six amps going through that circuit okay you're never going to be doing those calculations on your boat what you want to think about and I see this commonly that what the takeaway here is that every single piece of equipment electrical equipment on your boat is essential to limit a dead short from the power supply you cannot ever ever ever connect a positive and negative wire together without something in between that provides a limiting factor so that you don't have a dead short between positive and negative okay but I'm not seeing myself doing amp calculations when I'm troubleshooting I'm using this as an example to remember that there is going to be current going through a wire because that's going to be really useful and I'm gonna show about that a little bit later on how you can see if a load is actually working or not the other thing that is essential is going to be measuring voltage across two points in this instance it says finding battery voltage but it could be any sort of voltage it could be a voltage between a and B and as you're troubleshooting and sometimes unfortunately you might be in the middle of nowhere you might be you know I've got calls from people all over the place from the Browns from really deep into desolation sound where they can have cell reception but they just simply can't get a technician on board and they want to troubleshoot and so that's where having a multimeter on board is absolutely crucial if you want to be self-reliant it's easy if you're always in the city if your boat never leaves the dock and you can afford a technician no problem this doesn't apply to you you'll just simply always call the challenges you might be able to and are willing to pay for a technician in the city but what happens when you're in the middle of nowhere and you want to resolve this problem because you don't want to either you don't want to end your vacation or this is actually such a big deal that it actually affects your vacation you can't even come home until you resolve this problem and that's why trouble shooting is essential it's not that you can't throw money at it is there's no way to throw money at it because there's no one around you that can help you other than yourself and it comes back to this being this self-reliant so what you'll end up doing is you'll want to be able to measure potential voltage another way that it's described is differential right what is the difference in volts between two points on a circuit so here we're just demonstrating measuring voltage potential across a battery what happens when you reverse the probes notice that before the positive was the top and now the negative so the polarity is gonna change right between maybe if that batteries let's say 1.5 volt it's gonna be one point five negative one point five right and then what happens and this is pretty common here we're just demonstrating a one point five battery but how many boats have six volt golf carts pretty common right wire it in series two batteries wired in series and then have another two wired in series and another two and then have them in parallel and if you want to know if that battery which battery has failed you'll most likely and this happens to boaters all summer long remember failures are gonna most likely happen when you're using your boat they're not gonna happen when you're not in your boat and you're not gonna know a failure probably until you use your boat and how many of us use your boat at the dock not that many so these problems unfortunately happen to us when we're on our own you've got to figure this out and I walk through this sort of testing with owners and boaters all the time okay let's isolate the battery you've got a battery bank you've got a batteries which battery has failed let's measure the voltage across every battery let's find the one that has a dead short what's going to happen next let's start there once we figure that out then we can isolate but you do that by measuring in this instance the voltage potential between one end and the other and what voltage are you gonna get right you're gonna get in that instance three volts or if it was a golf cart battery two in series it'd be 12 here's another instance how many boaters have group 31 s or 8 DS in parallel tons I mean I'm every searay that is out there instead of putting an ad on board now they're putting group 31 s because a they wait half as much and they're putting the batteries in parallel because they still just need 12 volts on the smaller boats and they're putting 2 root 31 s in parallel so replace 1.5 volts with group 31 12 and so when you wire and you measure the voltage potential across you're still measuring 12 volts because they're not in series now they're in parallel the rule is this when you add there's two variables to a battery in terms of amp power at characteristics there's a lot but let's let's bring it down to two simple points one is amp hours right that's capacity we talked about that yesterday it's called the C 20 rating I'm not gonna go into that but that's what it is so you buy a battery and capacity golf cart battery is about 220 amp hours and then you're gonna buy it in voltage it's six volts it's not really but let's call it six when you add batteries in series the amp hours stay the same and the volts keep adding pretty common now to see both 24 volts right so you'll have literally for golf cart batteries in series four ball golf cart batteries in series are gonna be 24 volts with it two hundred and twenty amp hour rating so you can't it's there's no miracle you can't add volts and amps you either one or the other now if you take for example an 8 d battery or a group 31 battery group 31 battery is a hundred and twenty hundred and ten app hours and you start putting them in parallel the volts stay the same but the amp hours keep increasing that's how you get a larger battery bank so for group 31s in parallel is 440 amp hours at 12 volts the other thing that I think is really essential as a boater if you want to be self-reliant is to start drawing stuff out and neatness is gonna be key on your boat I can't tell you how many boats I go into and I'm looking at the battery bank and after five minutes I'm still not sure how everything is wired it works but our brains are looking for patterns that's what it is chaos is natural but order isn't and if you have order on your boat electrically speaking like things are done neatly and that's why pros do it like that it's not because they're crazy they're OCD it's because then you if something's out of place it will obviously stick out and mechanics talk about this with cleanliness is godliness on an engine right they say how important it is to have your engines perfectly cleaned everything about it so if you ever see a little bit spot of oil something looks out of place your brain is gonna spot the anomaly if everything looks like chaos you could stare at it for twenty minutes you're not sure what's new what was there before and you're still staring at it it doesn't make any sense so for troubleshooting and looking at batteries create a little schematic when things are calm when you don't have a problem how are my batteries wired so that when it comes down to it you can either take a picture of it send it to a technician send it to a friend like I've got a problem where do I start and that's a great thing about the boating community right is that you can really rely a lot of times I'll have voters that are middle know we're stuck and I'm like okay you're in desolation sound there's bound to be someone around you that's maybe more comfortable than you are if you're not go on a little tender ride and find someone that's willing to help and oddly enough I always get to talk to someone else right the owner the primary owner might not be comfortable it's a of a great he's like I can't I just I'm not comfortable but then I'll be talking to someone else hi Joe oh yeah so you've been on this boat you don't know no but I'm here to help yeah I'm pretty good I'm a mechanic or I'm an engineer or yeah I've built my own boat or I've done this or I sail around the world or whatever yeah so tell me what should I do and then we walk through it and this community helps and we can resolve problems with one another even though I might not be there in person but a diagram is gonna make the job of whoever is working on your boat or helping you out much easier so batteries in parallels right we got two 12-volt batteries positive to positive right and negative to negative right so what happens to the volts 12 volts that's right and what about the amp hours 200 yeah and that's how you get a larger battery back right like it's pretty rare that you're gonna have someone that's gonna have one battery for the whole battery bank right and think about even a 12 volt battery is really six batteries in series because there's no such thing as a 12 volt cell all the cells are two point one volts for a lead acid battery so when you're buying a 12 volt battery you're actually buying six batteries that are wired in series in that battery short-circuits it's sort of like lighting a match in a gasoline tank that is mostly empty full of vapors it's the end of the world can never happen it's game over so there's no kind of like a whatever it's just fun no a dead a short circuit between a positive post on a 12 volt battery we saw some videos yesterday is extremely significant and is it and will be a life event on your boat you will never forget that day ever so what we do as boaters is we try to avoid having that right very very very big and that's where all this safety craziness and people call me are you just a fuse nut I'm like I'm a fuse nut I'm like do you wire everything in your home right hot you have three nails on the wall that's it your circuit panel you like to the electrician that you know I you don't need that I do my style grow up three nails on the wall just wrap wires around it whatever happened happens we'll just go with it because believe it or not large portions of boats out there have the exact attitude that a grow-op has you know what I'm here I want to get it done something happens we'll deal with that later I just want an electricity right now don't care about a short-circuit don't care about a fuse blowing there's no need to think about it I don't need one I'm a lucky guy it's just gonna work alright so what is a watt and that's going to be really important so when you think about how water tanks a windlass a lot of devices on earth right it's the actual rate of doing work yesterday I was using the word energy energy stored that's it's what is doing work energy is storing power right so these are good little examples a windless 1200 watts that's a really good one VHF radio 25 char plotters nowadays are probably about the same 25 watts they used to be more right so and all these values are going to depend on what the voltage you feed to the device right so this big difference between and we'll talk about that what happens when you run a device at 24 volts or you running at 12 volts or you run at 120 volts right that's gonna have an impact on the current draw so for in this instance in the diagram we've got a 60 watt light bulb sorry and so if you've got 60 watts and you got a 12 volt circuit you're gonna have a 5 amp draw make sense right so 5 amps is gonna flow through that wire and there's this multimeter tool that I use was just called a clamp on multimeter and big fan because it's something that you don't have to actually even use probes you can just clamp on on any wire you know just literally wrap it around it's almost like wrapping your fingers around a wire and you can actually see the current draw that a load is giving you and that's really useful for troubleshooting really useful because it's not scary you're not disconnecting anything you're not probing and I want to know is this device drawing any power this point is very important the second point amps very widely based on voltage on the circuit running a windless with an alternator is a good idea because your voltage is higher therefore the amps are gonna be less on the circuit but the opposite is also true and equally worse because now if you've got your batteries are depleted 11 11 and a half and you're running the winless with no alternator there and you're running your windlass at 11 volts what was good at 14 is now really bad at 11 right so you always want to have the higher the Volt within reason is better than a lower voltage and that's what happens when you get to this low volts in things start dying alright there are implications of what happens under low voltage that can be pretty serious especially for motors okay so here's a microwave that's a common item on a lot of boats not everyone has a microwave but it's pretty commonplace if you've got a 1200 watt microwave and you're running it all over 120 you're gonna have a 10 amp draw and you know what's so interesting I get this all the time like I'm talking not everyday but almost Jeff you're telling me I'm gonna put in a hundred ample charger on my boat but I only have a 30 amp receptacle on the dock how will I run a hundred amp charger with a 30 amp receptacle I can't and I don't have a generator what am I gonna do it's maybe it's probably my fault right what I should have said is we're going to provide a hundred amp 12 volt charger right that's probably gonna draw around 15 18 amps ac alright I should have told them the whole story right because the reality is that a load at 120 and a load at 12 is different so you can have a lot of devices like a Chargers a really good example it converts AC amps to DC amp that conversion process is not free right it doesn't simply convert for free so a charger is generally gonna run about 1.8 times you'll actually if you put a hundred amp charger on your boat it's probably gonna draw it should you the math you think well it's only 10 ads right it's a factor of 12 to to 120s factor of 10 but there's a there's a conversion rate and that conversion is going to draw you about 18 amps versus what you thought would it be only 10 amps inverters are way better newer inverters are way better at converting DC to AC but chargers are pretty inefficient still so if you've got a microwave 1200 watt load 120 volts you got a 10 M so you know probably the circuit on which it's connected is going to be the standard plugs that we have in the wall like at home and that's gonna be a 15 amp receptacle right 15 amp receptacle is gonna easily be able to handle a 10 amp load we talked about that a little bit yesterday you rarely want to have you'll definitely a lot of times gonna have the windless manufacturer is going to be very specific and to what they want as a circuit breaker that circuit breaker if they tell you they want 80 amps and they're not expecting 80 amps on that windless they're saying at 80 you got to stop they gave us a safety factor right they gave us some room so it's not like the windless is always like for instance this windlass is a hundred the manufacturer would never tell us to use a hundred amp breaker on there never because it would nuisance trip all the time now a lot of them are not going to be telling you what actually the windlass is doing they're not even to tell you what it the amps is drawing they're just gonna give you specific instructions use this as a breaker on this windlass right and they're in their department manufacturing they're going that's enough within reason because the windings on the windlass cannot handle more than X so put a thermal circuit breaker of X on the circuit now notice how this winless is doing better when the voltage is higher in terms of a lower amp draw right that's why it's always good when you're running your windlass to make sure that your engine is running but not only that to make sure that you've engaged the throttle enough so that your alternator excited and it's outputting something that is meaningful to recharge the battery and if your were really depleted well maybe you should leave the alternator run for 10-15 minutes to bring the battery voltage higher so that when the windless does run for one minute two minutes your amperages are less than they would be without the alternator running if you have a stock alternator is like ten fifteen amps as what is the stock alternator output at idle ten fifteen amps maybe talk alternators 55 amps if you have a vanilla alternator and you didn't order a high output one you just have an alternator nobody ever sold you nobody ever gives you something that's amazing without telling you it's amazing that's the rule nobody gives anything away oh yeah well well it's like if you got a high output alternator now of course if you bought a super insane boat and you bought a four million dollar five million dollar flemming that's fifty five feet or something yeah you know that the owners went full stupid the builders yes okay but there everything's full stupid they went everything what I would have done but that's the exception right everything else if you have a stock alternator that's fifty five amps maybe you're lucky you got an eighty then they go much bigger than that and their internal regulator we talked about that yesterday so don't expect a lot and especially at idle it's a function of RPM right our alternate output for most stock alternators are very low on low rpms but something is better than nothing it's not to say that it's not a lot that you shouldn't use it put all the chances on your side now here's another example what happens when you run into 24 volts notice how the amperage went down that's pretty critical and that's why builders are on the larger boats are going 24 volts because the distances are so long and they want to save on the wiring and they're like oh yeah the complications of having 20 we'll turn that bad I'm gonna wire my boat 24 and then we'll put dc-to-dc converters or I'll put a small battery bank for only 12-volt loans but the ideal boat eventually in the future would be definitely 24 volts the the bigger the voltage the better it is it's just there's not a lot of appliances that run at that voltage in the past more and more so now it's easier and easier to go to higher voltages all right so what is direct current there's two things right we're I'm using this word intern changeably and this is gonna be important when you're troubleshooting you're gonna be thinking am i dealing with DC or AC right direct current for the most part like ninety nine ninety nine percent is gonna come from a battery on our boat some of you might have a 24 volt boat and 12 volts come from the DC to DC converter but that's very rare very rare only some of us have those for the most part everything DC on a boat is generally coming from a battery some boats even have 32 volt systems again pretty rare but they're out there solar panels output DC current alternators up with DC current we talked about wind generators up with that DC generators we talked about output DC obviously an AC generator does an output DC the primary use of an AC generator is to output AC current we'll talk about what AC current is and that's alternating current the AC is what we see in our homes right I mean that's what it is it's ubiquitous you get it from shore power or running a generator right or you can get it from an inverter right an inverter will provide AC so on your boat there's really three only ways for you to generate AC I mean there's always exceptions but like you're connected shore power AC you're running a generator an AC generator or you've got an inverter and you're creating AC from DC but those are the three methods on how you're gonna get alternating current power supply and what are a see yesterday I wanted to emphasize what our AC lows on your boat AC loads are outlets right those plugins it might be a microwave it might be a hot water tank a battery charger is gonna have an AC input it could be an AC water maker it could be a AC garbage compactor it could be air conditioning some boats a lot of boats actually come with air conditioning we don't use them that much here but they'll come with air conditioning air conditioning AC driven right all of those are sort of AC loads that you have on your boat people that go offshore we wired i'vecome compressors AC dive compressors right generally things that need a lot of power are going to be driven by AC why because the voltage are better there to 2120 that means the wiring size can be significantly less and that's why large loads are generally driven by alternating current all right so okay we're gonna we're gonna deal into a little bit of wiring and after that we'll take a little bit of break and then we're gonna do into electronics so we talked about how important working from safe doing things the right way I am constantly surprised and amazed that the ability for people to innovate in the wrong ways on their boats there's a common way that works for 99% of the world but there's always an owner that is convinced that they know better than everyone else I have rarely been impressed positively by someone who came up with something better than the rest of the world does it there are very few people that will wire a boat better than what the code does in a unique way that no one else thought about very rare never I have yet to encounter it there probably one of them out there but that's an Edison like that's someone that is out there completely on their own the rest of us are looking at each other peers and we're like what are they doing oh yeah that's a good idea oh yeah but they're all pros they're not people that have wired a boat for the first time one time and are coming up with a better idea than someone that's worried about 10,000 times right the best golfers are not the people that play golf once and they're like they're the people that play golf every day so I want to emphasize and here's what's here's what's good and here's what's bad if you have a previous owner that is convinced that they know more than anyone else you could be in a world of hurt where what appears to be what it looks like in their mind was the exact opposite I've been on boats where reds are blacks blacks or reds I've been on boat where they actually decided that patterns are bad you should always be on your toes so we're gonna wire red sometimes black sometimes and we're gonna interchange we're gonna use AC whine for DC DC for AC we're gonna mix it up like well you'll never know you'll always need to think and I am not making this stuff up I'm not making it so as an owner of a boat 8 you'll never do that because you're here and you're educating yourself you're clearly not that person but what you need to be careful about is what about the person before me that owned my own boat were they that person and if they are then shred lightly slowly because nothing is what it seems and that's why the code is important because it's a waste of time I remember on my boat I had to do that there are things on my boat that were just amazing it was craziness and I was so frustrated at the beginning I was like why am i spending all this time repairing something that could have been done the right the first time and actually working on things to improve my boat as opposed to just fixing something that was done bad because there's a lot of work on a boat nobody ever has to worry and say golly gee I wish I had a tasks to do on my boat if only I had something that was essential and pressing I'm coming here to boat and I've got nothing that I could potentially do heavy sarcasm I mean a boat is a list if you get into it it's it's mild deep it you could you could go forever and you just prioritize the important ones so my take away with standards is don't waste your time redoing things that could have been done once right worried about the things that you can't influence that you'll have to repair and do those things frequently the things that you don't there's so much work on a boat there is so much work so do things to standards ABY sees down is g11 do it right the first time so this is going to be for troubleshooting very essential I've seen this boats from the 70s that did not have an AC panel on their boat that was retrofitted was reference it retrofitted at the time with solid core copper wiring on their boat it's called a world of hurt a world of hurt a boat unlike a house is a vibration prone environment now if your boat doesn't vibrate congratulations you have a houseboat and your boat never moves so you have less problems but if your boat actually moves because of engine or it goes in the seas and you're actually in seas you're gonna have vibration on your boat that vibration will break those cores over time they will and that's why you absolutely want this sort of wire it's a copper wire that's been tend to offset corrosion which causes resistance and so you want that sort of wire in your boat now these are different wire sizes but you can buy marine grade AC wiring like for example that's potentially 14-3 you can buy fourteen three cable marine or household completely different but very essential that you have that wiring your builders are I've never seen a builder built of this ever you might have welding cabling on your boat a lot of builders did for reasons of cost and it's realistic it does happen it does happen but if you're doing something on your boat know that that is a very short-term gain for long term pain so when you're buying wiring and if you have wiring that is welding cable and you have problems of resistance on that circuit don't be surprised right because there's no tinning on the cable and the cable over time will have more and more voltage drop under load and it's going to give you grief color codes talked about that earlier they're there for a reason it's about predictability it's about being on board and just jumping in not having to think about every single wire what it does it creates a pattern okay very important here's a list I know it's the list might be hard but there's a common list of 12 volt wiring color codes the slides are gonna be presentable that would be something that you'd want to work towards the big ones are DC is positive is red now DC negative is yellow thank god good reason so that's really essential and then you've got other different codes well we yeah we rarely find that wires almost doesn't ever exist can almost never find that no yeah it's we used for DC wiring negative we use yellow period [Applause] yeah yes good question how does one tell the difference between a Seahawk which is black and dc- which on all of our a lot of our boats is black now I just want you to just think about how insane this is one is deaf and the other one is benign it's ground it's earth it's life they're both black cables and one is death and the other one is life so you need to do as an electrician when you see a black cable on your boat tread cautiously right because you don't know what it is in the past size of wire would have given you at least a start of indication it's pretty rare that you're gonna have to watt AC wiring black wire in your boat you're not gonna see a cable that's as big as let's say my finger that's gonna run AC on a boat right generally a generator might be outputting a big generator maybe four gauge AC right black 4 gauge that's pretty much the threshold of reasonable because you can run like think about an 8 gauge runs 50 amps so 4 gauge is a big gen so generally it's the big cables are probably DC if they're black but then there's a world where they overlap 10 gauge 8 gauge 12 gauge 14 gauge that world is a world of I don't know and you got to think about it now obviously if the wires run in a cable and it's three colors it should be AC right like green white black but remember the MacGyver's that are all around us the people that are going to a store and say well that's stupid why would I buy two reels of 14 2 and 14 3 when I can buy one wheel of 14 and just wire everything 14-3 my vote and I'll have spare cabling on my boat when I need it because sometimes I'll use it for DC I'll use it for AC and I'll remember that white is red black is negative but depends things on context and ah it's a big deal I don't remember that forever and somehow I'll pass that information on to the next owner just by touch and they'll know everything I know yeah so I can tell you there are countless boats that are wired 14 3 AC cabling and they're running DC loads and then that makes your world completely crazy if you have a new boat or boat that's factory main and nobody's touched it congratulations you don't have this problem the problem only happens with previous owners people that simply are infused with knowledge people that simply were born and they knew everything and those people don't need to read anything about anything so they just do it and it makes distinguishing between AC and DC very very hard very hard polarity also matters I cannot say how polarity matters polarity for example if you screw up the polarity on the solar panel you will blow it up some solar panels are $1,800 that is a expensive mistake a bilge pump if you a motor a fan if you reverse the polarity it's gonna run the other way that matters so polarity absolutely matters here are some examples for DC right this is we never use black ever ever on DC wine ever why would I confuse people I mean I'm not mean I want to make people's life easy I use yellow all the spools we buy are yellow for DC every single one oh yeah absolutely yeah question was do I do that with battery cables absolutely too hot for OTT three OTT all those DC whine large cable sizes I use yellow here's basically the common three colors for AC on a boat you also on both I have 220 you'll has also red what red can also be AC yeah yes so if you've got a 220 boat you'll have red black white and green on AC and if it's a 220 boat that means it's a big boat it's a big boat that means you have a big generator if you have a big generator that means you have big red wiring so now you've got big Reds that are actually 220 and you have Reds that are 12 now 220 would hurt like now that's a real life event so this is where when you're working on your boat I would strongly suggest that you remove AC appliances or a seal of AC sources of power when even you're working on your DC system right you want to remove any sort of possibility shut down the shore power you know disabled at the same inverter with the inverters service disconnect make sure your generator won't start and then do it but do it cautiously because remember the implications about 120 it's not about pain right it's about death right you literally can get electrocuted and it's not that you'll not you'll be dead it's not only gonna have a big burn mark on your fingers or across you know if you are kit through your body right it's not like your fingers are gone this is not like it's not gonna damage your body that bad it's your heart so that's why you need to worry about 120 it's this alternating current that screws up with your heart rhythm okay different wire sizes of course this is non-metric so the technicians that come to us from Austria that live in where things are actually normal and metric don't understand any of our wire sizes naturally I love this it's only the British only the British they figured out that the largest cable size was going to be zero so they decided largest was going to be zero but then one time they realized well actually it's not so I need a bigger one so they did one ought to wat three aught for ott because if you said the largest cable to be the start what is largest at a moment might not be largest forever smaller should have been the way they did it which is how the metric system works they go the smallest to whatever it is they start from zero and build up the imperial system does it the other way they go from largest first and then zero one two three four five six as you go up bigger the number the smaller the gauge on a boat for troubleshooting electrical electronics and stuff like that appliances you're going to see wire gauges from here to about 22 this range here 24 26 28 is so tiny you can even it's a hair I mean it's tiny but 10 gauge 14 16 18 those are kind of the common sizes for electronics on electrical you're gonna start being bigger cable sizes obviously thicker wire carry more ants we we emphasized yesterday how to small of the wire can cause a fire and this is a wire that's catching on fire and it's actually probably just a micro shot because the amount of smoke that comes out of and we saw that yesterday in a video the amount of smoke that comes out of the jacket of a cable when it's dead short is absolutely terrifying it is like a smoke grenade you'll never see through it same thing is gonna happen I mean you you're gonna wire a dead shorts a dead short that the challenge is is are there differences between a 24 volts or a 12 volt dead short there's more energy capacity in a 24 volt bank but then the wire size is also generally are going to be size a little bit less so there's maybe gonna be less shielding that's gonna the problems done them wire melting it's the heat that's generated when the wire melts because the wire will melt it will actually most likely actually melt away you'll melt the metal apart so can you imagine you're actually melting copper so it actually becomes apart I mean that's a lot of heat but in the process it's so warm that it warms everything around it like when we do we do a lot of insurance claims where we come on morning and then that bundle wires shorts the other wires around it because how many wires on your boat are running alone alone in one conduit just by themselves they're not they're running down pipes conduits and when you have a dead short even on a small wire I've had that on a boat where you had a dead short from the bridge down to Laura helm on a small wire I think it was a VHF cable gage 16 that short was going down the pipe that was connecting the two house then it caused shorts on bigger cables which caused short and the whole bundle shorted so it has a domino effect right because the cable doesn't just lie on the ground all by itself on a completely you know concrete floor and it just shorts and you just lose it it's not a fuse like you see in the movies when they blow up a bridge like you're blowing up a wire in a bundle and that bundle is not meant to sense a wire that's around it getting so hot that it's going to meal not only their jacket but the jackets around it and then everything just goes so when and that could be a problem on your boat when you're troubleshooting and remember what I was saying a little bit yesterday and I want to emphasize this this is what I think is so in some ways terrifying of being a boat owner is that the realization that things on your boat are not necessarily done right as opposed to your car you know when I started owning my boat I thought Jeff what you're just gonna do if you don't understand something you're just gonna redo it the way it was done because it's probably done right to begin with just redo what's there and you're good to go I can only tell you the downward spiral that I went into this black hole when I realized that things on my boat weren't done right in the first place and that's why things were not working now that is disconcerting because then where do you start and this is how I got into this business clearly I didn't want to be in this business I wanted I was doing quite well having a normal life working a nine-to-five a hard job just dealing with other stuff and going home in the evening and boating but I was like this is crazy things have to work on a boat and so when you're thinking and you're troubleshooting a problem on your boat and your bilge pump is constantly blowing or your water pumps are not are failing prematurely or why is my windlass being changed every two years or three years why my starter constantly dying it might have to do that the wire feeding that device was undersized to begin with so when you're troubleshooting something don't assume the problem is only that device maybe the power feeding into that device was undersized to begin with and you're constantly having voltage drop and that voltage drop is causing the appliance to work harder than it should and it's causing it to die prematurely this is a blue sees and it did a good job because a byc has a table but they've kind of married both a wire and and voltage table together and the voltage that you're trying to shoot for is either ten percent or three percent that's called voltage drop and this is the length of the cable return meaning what is gonna be the cable going to someplace and back can I tell you how many motors are just always thinking what's the distance between my batteries in the windless 20 feet 30 feet okay and then they go and they wire this I'm like no no that's half the circuit it's 30 feet to 30 feet back it's a 60 foot run right and also think that the distance is the wire distance not the distance if a laser was sent through all objects between here and there rarely will you ever have distances on boats can be absurd going from the battery to a windlass might be 30 feet if you were like a bee and you were able to fly through walls but the run might be 45 feet 48 feet just to go because you've got an up down sideways across right there's all these obstructions to get to the windlass so that length of cable is here and then you've got to decide is this a non-critical load or a critical load a byc has all these distinctions between the two and then once you know that then you can start choosing what wire size you will have notice for odd is over here and then it goes all the way to engage 16 so here's an example if you've got an anchor light that's 5 amps at the top now obviously this is not an LED anchor light this is a huge anchor light but let's just keep 5 amps most of them are probably 2 to 3 but let's assume it's 5 so you got the length of the cable to the bottom of the masts up the mast back down and back back again right so you got 10 plus 40 and then another 40 plus 10 for a total of a hundred now this is also assuming like it's a straight line right remember very few things there's that's why people hide wires you don't want to see wires in your boat so ever hiding behind walls underneath so the runs are not that clean so if you've got a hundred foot run of cabling and that's not crazy right that's not crazy 40-foot high mass is a pretty low mass they get much higher than that what where are you gonna find that on the chart right so you go non-critical load 30 feet that would give you 12 right hundred feet but we're not doing 30 here right we're doing this one so it's a 12 gauge and that's generally what they are leave it on my calendar had that they got that right we talked yesterday I'm gonna go through this a little bit I fused the purpose of a fuse and when you're gonna be troubleshooting fuses are one of the number one things you're looking for okay if you don't know where a fuse for a circuit is prepare yourself for a lot of frustration when you're troubleshooting something if you have a power problem to an appliance the most likely culprit is the fuse most likely copper it is the fuse so you need to know where the fuses are so that you can actually replace the fuse so that you can get the appliance working again different example of fuses these are kind of called ATO ATC's right you see those in cars all the time that's a glass fuse that's what's called an a an elf use testing fuses on the glass ones it's actually sometimes hard they're so hard I mean you know you can actually what you do is you take a multimeter and you put it in what's called ohms test right or continuing test and you'll actually measure across that and before you actually measure continuing you actually put the two probes together and you should hear a beep that tells you that you're you're in their homes meter mode you touch you hear beat that means you've got a dead short that's what you're looking for right because the fuse is supposed to provide connectivity so when you put it at the end of the fuse if you don't hear a beep you know you have an open circuit therefore the fuse has blown some fuses like a class-d fuse on inverter you can't see the filament inside the only way to test a Class C fuse is the multimeter again if you don't if you never leave the dock this doesn't matter but if you do leave the dock and you go further and further afield I cannot tell you how many times I have this conversation every day in the summer helping other boaters figuring out why their inverter charger is not working I mean it's 20 30 40 times a day a week constantly I get text messages at night in the morning oh my god my inverter doesn't work how do we resolve it I've heard can you help us we don't know each other but I heard you can help me I'm like okay let's walk through it what's going on let's where's your fuse I don't know well that's the first thing you got to start chase the wire down it's gonna be close to inverter oh I don't see it well look at the positive wire and start chasing it down rule number one create diagrams does it you don't need it we were being prepared is about when things happen to resolve them expediently right so know where the fuse is okay now you're gonna shut off the switch you have a switch no okay well that's a problem all right so this is gonna spark a little bit here okay so take out the fuse all right you have a multimeter no well you need one go get one I don't have one see a friend find someone in the marina some someone in the Anchorage we gotta find the ohms is it dead should you have a spare No well that's a problem carry spares all these things and the difference between the person that's prepared and the person that isn't is there's one person that spends a day two days resolving a problem and the other one takes literally ten minutes so it really depends as a boater is like do I value my time really that's what it comes down to and being prepared and having a multimeter and actually before you put a fuse just test it just for the fun of it you know it's sort of like radar I use radar when I don't need it so that when I need it I know how to use it don't have your multimeter stacked so deep in your toolbox that you've never seen it before and the first day you use it you don't even know if it has batteries or if it's powered right the problem like I was trying to emphasize is some fuses you cannot see the filament and the filament is so small to begin with I've seen glass fuses where the filament explodes but it explodes perfectly on the glass and the filament is right there you're looking at it but it actually didn't break in the middle it braked at both ends and the filament almost etched itself on the glass so when you look at the fuse you're like I still have a filament in there but it's actually an optical effect the filament is not there the wire is so small within that that it actually is an open circuit so sometimes looking at something will not tell you the whole story yesterday we had questions about different types of fuses this is with the perfect slide again blue C's does a great job at this you can see all the different types of fuses here that are common for in the Mirena environment strongly suggest that as you go further and further afield you start carrying spare fuses your goal should be for everything but at least for the critical things on your vote like an inverter charger that goes you not only lose your inverter which you might mean you lose your refrigerator which this could be a big deal because that means you haven't all your food is going to top so have a spare class t fuse on board some motors I give to they're going up to the Browns they'll never use them but I'm like at least because if you need a fuse in the Browns you're not gonna get one it's not gonna happen you're not gonna go to shape here walk in and go hey I'm looking for a class T fuse 400 in no way there's no way you're on your own you're totally on your own so this is a great chart lucy's did a great job this shows the different ranges we pretty much use every single fuse on there every single one in our business fuses are built for a purpose they all have different trip rates different averages and yeah they're it's great it's awesome and even show all the wire gauge sizes whoever made this chart so awesome great job well it depends like for example a really popular one that we love and we use quite a lot is this one here because it's easy to install the M RBF that's probably the most popular one that we use now marine rated battery fuse that's probably the number one it looks like a chiclet it's about maybe one centimeter you have some on your boat I put I mean I buy these like in thousands like like I'm crazy for fuses right crazy for fuses i fuse everything everything is fuse so is your house though by the way right like if you didn't assert it on your house it's criminal negligence like on the water it's a choice oh well I didn't think I needed one because the code on land is have to do it regardless of who you are there's someone that comes behind you to audit the work you did but on a boat it's recommended so Wild West it's the western frontier so that's why the craziness happens in Australia this is why I like hiring Aussies it's not land and waters the same so over there there is no craziness all this time that I'm wasting talking about fuses nobody would ever talk about it over there because they all do it the right way right away there is no option you cannot not do it the proper way but in Canada in the United States it's seen as a voluntary recommendation so the M RBF is probably the most popular inverters we use this and then als we use on large circuits a lot circuit breakers are very similar right the fuses but the OP they offer most of them and their thermal circuit the ability to be reset or also to be turned off so our AC panels and a DC panels our thermal circuit breakers that you turn on and off thermal circuit breakers will die they don't want forever they will at one point stop working I see them it's part of and we'll talk about how you troubleshoot that but they will die right but they're great because not only is it a fuse it's a resettable fuse and it's a switch it's a way for a boater to say I want to disconnect a circuit all our panels are built with these right you don't see the back but you see that just a little toggle white toggle and you're turning on water pumps radar all those circuits are basically thermal circuit breakers that in the event of a short or over current would actually trip so they'll actually go on the off position in the event of overcurrent yeah yeah yeah Lucy's make stuns yeah absolutely the really popular one that you see a lot of times that you put on all pretty much inverter on all windless is those sort of fuses right now your circuit breakers right you've got to press the button right it resets if you want to close it so for example it's great because if your passage making and you're a sailor and you're gonna be sailing for 20 days between here and there you might want to disable your windlass like why would your windlass be powered for 20 days in the bow of the boat that's gonna be underwater you might what say you know what I'm not gonna have power on my windlass and on my windlass solenoid I don't want to have any accidental not only is your anchor tied but you don't want the motor to turn on for whatever reason so you don't have nestle a switch for the circuit you have a thermal circuit breaker that you go and disable so I remember when I sailed around Vancouver Island and I left Port Hardy and we were sailing around Cape Scott and I had her horror stories and by the way for me they were real it was a it was an extremely humbling event before I did that passage reading people that had done blue water I'm like well this is sort of gonna be my first blue water there's probably gonna be some green waves on the bow probably that's what I heard not everyone has this experience I certainly did did and so before I went I'm like I'm not planning on anchoring off Cape Scott not gonna happen I like we were there a lot of us were good swimmers I like but the shoreline is far from inviting so it's like you can make it to shore but you'll probably landing on shore I was like no we're not going to be anchoring so I disabled my windlass as always doing that passage and that's great that's what's nice about a circuit breaker right you can actually turn devices off so it's a fuse and it's a circuit breaker all right so with that I'm gonna just ask any questions we're gonna about take a break and then we're gonna go into electronics any questions on wire sizes circuit breakers fundamentals volts DC AC anything no go ahead question is if something requires 16 gauge does it hurt to have 14 gauge absolutely not and I can tell you as a boater it as a technician when I wire my own boat guess where an engineer goes does the minimum or airs on the side of caution my wire sizes are never to minimum never why the cost is so tiny the the most expensive thing on your boat is time your time or another person's time the labor cost is what is the biggest proportion run a wire run once do it well do to a slightly bigger gauge I'm not saying if they need 16 go to walk but how many times I don't ever run 16 I don't even have 16 gauge all our wires are the bigger size it's 14 16 14 12 10 10 I'm always going to go up a size if I can fit it on the terminal give myself room why not it's not a lot more money and then just do it right do it once question I will do that so the question was about fire fly batters we talked a lot about fire fly batteries yesterday I will take that offline and we'll talk about that a little bit later keep it on topic right now any other questions yes go ahead yeah a first multimeter if you want to learn I was so excited when I bought my boat I was it was a combination of it was a life event and I went to Home Depot and I bought like 2,000 worth of dollars of tools I thought it was justified I was like mom I have a boat now so I need tools and I went to Home Depot and I bought a multimeter all of it well all right away the multimeter is now on a shelf and it's a reminder and I keep it right there always to remind me that I need to educate myself before I buy something that multimeter is only for AC it doesn't do DC because at Home Depot how many people worry about DC Circuit's so the lesson is educate yourself and I keep it it's still there people at the office like why do we have this here it's to remind each and every one of us to educate ourselves before we purchase anything all right so you're gonna want a multimeter that is DC enabled that's really going to be the most of the troubleshooting that you're gonna do you're gonna do on your boat you're gonna want a multimeter I'll bring one in that is clamp on right it has it like a sort of like a little spring-loaded jaw and I'll bring it in I have it in the car where you can actually measure current on all these circuits without disconnecting electrocuting yourself it actually measures it through magnetic flux right so there's a magnetic field through every wire when current flows through it it's just that's part of it and so you put that little clamp on meter and you can actually measure and I get owners that totally geek out with me they're like oh my god I spend the whole weekend figuring out what my amp drawers are and they're measuring everything all my fridge drawers is my s bars doing this or my windless drawers that oh my god my thrusters drunk so much or and then they're creating lists and they're like I had no idea because now suddenly you can actually know what each individual circuit on your boat is drawing and that might sound a little bit geeky when you don't need to but I can tell you when things are gonna actually fail knowing how to use a clamp-on meter and you might not know perfectly how to do all the steps but if you know how to use the tool and you can have someone guide you remotely to solve a problem that's going to be really helpful again it's all about staying on your vacation staying on the water not having to have someone come over to you and I do fly technicians out but it is expensive you don't want that you want to be self-reliant right do everything you can to resolve a problem and that multimeter would be really amazing blue C's does a really good one actually you don't have to buy a fluke fluke is sort of like the murse madam the best but my technicians will some of the will spend one of my technicians bought himself for Christmas a $2,000 multimeter but I mean this thing has reporting it has data logging and I'm so envious I'm trying to justify to myself but I don't work on the tools anymore so I can't but for most of us you go on Amazon and you're probably gonna spend for a reasonable digital multimeter not an analog one never analog don't bother it's a waste of time probably a hundred two hundred dollars think about how expensive to have someone come and help you per hour versus having that you'll pay that multimeter easily within the hour and then you can have someone like myself or someone that works on your boat help you diagnose diagnose a problem remotely right very helpful yes well we buy everything at bulk crazy volume so yeah retail well there's not that many more chandri's right so I think you'd have to go to your channel yeah it's got to be a marine channel Larry so it would be like some orders especially for sailboats some they'll come to us our prices are as competitive but we're not a retail shop you're not going to be looking at spools like we've got a front end but the back end is 95 percent of our business there is no retail store in our business but they'll come in let's say I need this and this if you want to have a retailer experience while in Vancouver you'll probably end up going to Steveston West marine went out is no longer here there's Martin marine is awesome on the North Shore any other suggestions I mean oh yeah decide to Shelter Island yeah he's great three or fourth generation business owner guys awesome but it's it's dwindling dwindling there's less and less Chandler is left around right yeah okay other questions all right we'll take a break and then we're gonna dive into electronics
UnBoxing & Product Reviews
How To: Marine Electrical Seminar
How To: Marine Electrical Seminar