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[Music]  hi everyone welcome to a presentation on  solar panels for your boat  I'm Jeff Cote with Pacific yacht systems  and I thank all of you for being here  with me sharing a little bit my passion  about marine electrical and trying to  stay at anchor for longer or do more of  the things we want to be doing and solar  is one of those things that allow us to  get there right so a little bit about  myself  I'm intrinsically I think Who I am as a  person is a boater I've actually given  thought to what I would have on my  tombstone and I was like what would  describe me more than anything and it's  one word a boater and all all the things  that are part of that so as an engineer  I always knew that I wanted a boat I was  about four years old when I started  visualizing boating and I clearly  remember those days and once as soon as  I finish University headed west and came  to the coast and started voting and what  I realized  shortly after buying her first boat  which was April Fool's Day in 2006 was  that power was going to be a real issue  on our boat water was doable but power  is going to be a big issue how was I  going to be able to stay at anchors for  extended period of time and do all the  things I want to do which was run a  refrigerator we'll talk about that but  ultimately I wanted to be able to run a  refrigerator have some lights on at the  very least and not have to run my main  engine at idle to recharge my batteries  and so that was sort of the genesis that  actually brought me not only and now as  a boater but as someone who now wants to  solve problems thinking there's got to  be a way to resolve this power problem  on our  so this quest led me to start my  business which I'm going to talk a  little bit about and if you're curious  about geeking out I use that term as a  way to say I want to make my boating  experience better what are the tools out  there that I can make boating better for  myself we've been writing 2 columns  every month at Pacific yachting for  almost 10 years now I think 9 years and  about a year with Northwest yawning and  if you're not a subscriber to those  magazines the good news is you can find  every single one of the articles that  we've written on all the topics on our  website everything is there in a PDF or  HTML format so you can see it as a web  page or you can download a PDF and it's  going to look exactly like the magazine  so that's a way for you as a Boulder to  sort of maybe you know five years ago  you weren't interested in solar now you  want to read the four or five articles  that I wrote over the last 10 years on  solar and you want to print them out and  educate yourself on how are you gonna  make a decision about that website is py  systems see a Pacific yacht system so py  systems dossier and I'm going to show  you a link at the end about that as well  on the last slide another good news is  all of these slides are actually going  to be posted on our website sharing is  caring  you know honestly what makes boating I  think so attractive to many of us is the  community aspect you know boaters help  each other out I mean it's part of it if  you don't like other people you're  probably not gonna find it too friendly  to have all these people offering a hand  offering a hand when we're docking offer  hand when you have you're stuck your  engine won't start offering a hand I  remember we were stuck one year in a  place and somebody wrote over and said  you know we've been here for seven days  fighting the storm are you ok do you  need any food that community is  beautiful and as part of a boater myself  I think well we do what we learn working  on every one of our boats I simply  return and give back to all of you here  in the room and we all do the same the  company that I found it is called  Pacific yacht systems were just north in  Vancouver and  we get invited and I think that is a  huge honor on about a thousand boats a  year clearly I don't do the work or get  it done the team around me actually gets  to get to work on people's boat and  accomplish the dreams that we set forth  together but that experience is what I'm  going to be sharing with you today  specifically two solar panels and the  other thing too is if you rather watch  videos than reading we have a really big  presence on YouTube we're at about now  165 videos of varying lengths people  seem to be resonating it's a way in the  evening it may be tired of watching the  normal TV and you want again you're  interested in a specific topic and  you're like I want to I'm curious about  alternators batteries solar anything  related to electrical electronics is our  specialty and we're publishing content  all the time sharing what we learn on  working on our boats we're gonna start  the big stage I mean what what are we  looking at here let's understand that  Solar is is just one way of recharging  our batteries right on a bow there's  going to be multiple ways of recharging  both batteries pretty commonly  everyone's got an engine pretty much and  if you've got an engine you have an  alternator and an alternator is one way  to recharge your batteries but that  means the engine has to be running and  generally at idle an engine doesn't  output a lot of power so it means that  you need to rev up and a lot of us maybe  trawlers or sail borders are not revving  up as high as we want to save fuel right  and so our alternators are I'm not  outputting what we want and the other  challenge that we have here in the  Pacific Northwest is once you're  cruising let's think about it the  distances between an amazing Anchorage  to another amazing Anchorage is not  measured in days and weeks it's two  hours three hours 15 nautical miles 10  nautical miles 25 nautical miles but  once you're in a place in the Gulf  Islands or a desolation sound or the  Browns or even the outside of Vancouver  Island the distances you cover are not  all that great and we can stay in  Anchorage's for two  three four days how do you recharge your  batteries if you're not running your  engine and that's what we're going to be  talking about silver the other thing too  is people end up most of us will have  what's called a battery charger on board  right a battery charger is a device that  if it has AC which is shore power or an  AC generator running can convert that AC  source shore power or generator and  convert it to DC but not all of us in  the room are going to have a generator  so what happens when you're not  connected to the dock or what if your  boat in the summertime is on a mooring  ball in front of maybe a cottage or near  a you know recreational property that  you have and you're not even plugged in  so a charger is really of no benefit for  a boater if you can't connect the shore  power the other thing too is I have  owners that really didn't use a  generator for anything else than  recharging the batteries and the  generator over time was giving them  grief you know not all generators are  running flawlessly and without any grief  and I can't tell you the number of boats  where we've taken out a generator that  really didn't see any use other than  recharging batteries and was giving a  lot of grief to the owner I've done that  on a bunch of grand banks bunch of  sailboats 50-footer they're like that's  it I'm done with the generator I don't  like the noise let's take it out here's  all this sudden space I have for  something else and let's put solar  panels as an alternative because  realistically if I can get away with the  Sun doing what the generator used to do  why not  and lastly another common way of  recharging batteries is you see that a  lot more not so much in the Pacific  Northwest but in the Caribbean and  cruising areas in the South Pacific wind  turbines right here in the Pacific  Northwest  the challenges are Anchorage's are so  bulletproof or hurricane holes that the  wind needs to be really blowing hard for  it to blow hard in an anchorage right  the trees are giants I mean you know for  it to blow 30 knots or 20 knots and in  Anchorage in the Pacific Northwest it's  pretty uncommon so in the summer when  things are rather mild you're not going  to have a chance to use your wind  generator as often here in the Pacific  Northwest  definitely arguments in the Caribbean  for sure here in the Pacific Northwest a  little harder so what we're gonna be  looking at next is we're going to be  talking about specifically solar and  solar controllers okay let's let's not  forget that you absolutely need a device  in between a solar panel and the  batteries to regulate the sun's power  because your batteries might be full  right  it's like going somewhere and there's a  buffet you know at the end of the day  you're only gonna eat if you're hungry  you can be maybe say hey you know what  I'm gonna eat a lot because I'm  anticipating but if there's endless food  in front of you at one point you're  gonna say I can't no more right you got  to stop and so what the regulator does  is it says you know I know there's a lot  of Sun out there yeah I could use that  Sun and recharge the batteries but the  batteries don't need it so that's what  the role of our solar controller is it  regulates the voltage and decides  through a smart charging curve right  bulk absorption float and it's gonna say  you know what at this point we'll just  sort of float the batteries but we don't  need to overcharge the batteries so  that's really important so when boaters  come to me and say Jeff you know tell me  what what can solar do for me  why would I consider solar generally I'd  say one of the number one reasons is  Jeff I want to stay an anchor an extra  day you know I'm at an anchor now for  two days or a day give me another day at  anchor or give me another two days at  anchor the other one that's really  common  I have boaters that say Jeff I remember  the day when I didn't have a  refrigerator on boat on board and I know  that my refrigerator takes a lot of  power offset my loads related to the  refrigerator or I am doing big power  boats now where they're saying I have a  generator I plan on keeping it but I  don't want to run my generator recharge  my batteries as often put a huge solar  array I'm doing that right now in a 65  north oven we're doing a 1800 watt array  the owner has two generators on board  too  but we're doing 80-100 away array has a  way to reduce the generator run time  right the owner would rather not run the  generator to recharge the batteries  they'll run  generator make water through water maker  to run maybe the stovetop right run  large AC loads on board but not to  recharge the batteries here's another  big and this is we're comparing our  notes here from the Pacific Northwest  with other boaters in the Caribbean or  elsewhere doesn't tell you the whole  picture in the Pacific Northwest in the  summer months we have very long days the  Sun rises quite early and goes and wants  to sleep you know over the horizon or  sets very late what that means is that  we have 15 hours of sunshine in the  summer you know in june/july parts of  august parts of May and now what that  means is that your solar panel will give  you better output not at any given  moment but because the day's longer if  you work more hours you're just simply  going to have more income and that's  where there's a question up front out  just one second that's where this is a  big differentiator in the Pacific  Northwest that we're going to get more  from our solar panels in the summer now  the converse is also true in the  wintertime when it is the end of the  world and it the days are only eight  hours and the Sun is low on the horizon  and it's raining non-stop your solar  panels are doing the very opposite so  you win on some days and you lose on  other days you win in the summer you  lose in the winter the good news is most  of us are not voting in the winter and  most of us are voting in the summer  question upfront  [Music]  yeah so the question upfront was how do  solar panels do on overcast overcast it  really depends what's overcast you know  there's some days where you know the  thickness of the cloud of the overcast  is so dark it feels like Armageddon and  some other days you see it's overcast  you can't see the Sun for example on  those smokey days where we had some huge  forest fires you know those days don't  the smoke is there but it's not thick  it's just blankets everything so you're  still getting good solar output you're  not seeing the Sun but the sun's going  through the thicker the clouds the  darker it is that's when you lose solar  output like on a day like now you know  you're getting because also the Sun  where it is on the horizon you're gonna  get only maybe 10 15 % of output on a  day like today but in the summer when  it's cloudy but the skies are really  high and it's still bright outside  you're gonna get maybe two-thirds of the  output it's not a black and white it's  not on or off another consideration is  and I hear this quite often from a lot  of boaters when we're doing boat shows  or presentations is Oh Jeff flexible  flexible solar panels don't give the  same sort of output as rigid that's why  I'm not gonna do flexible those days are  gone  nowadays if you buy a hundred watt solar  panel rigid or flexible they're going to  be the same size the difference is  you're gonna pay a lot more for a  flexible than a rigid that the  difference is in cost it's not a factor  of and I remember another question  they're like oh whoa my rigid 100 is way  better than my rigid flexible I'm like  no a 100 watt is a 100 watt right it's  apples to apples the difference is if  you buy a mono or a poly and we'll talk  about that later  then there's difference in sizes and  pricing but a hundred watt solar panel  is a hundred watt solar panel regardless  if it's Palo monney rigid or flexible  okay one of the considerations and  advantages with flexible solar panels is  they're so lightweight meaning as we  bring weight more aloft on a boat that  under way in following seas when the  boat is pitching and yawing can make the  ride less comfortable so there are  concerns  putting heavy solar panels off a solar  arch 12 feet on a sailboat off the  waterline all right that's why racers  try to avoid having a matte radar on top  of a mass above let's say for example  the steaming light because again when  the boat is on its side it keeps going  more on its side so rigid solar panels  versus flexible is you know easily a  factor 5 to a factor of 10 in weight you  can buy a hundred watt solar panel 170  watt solar panels like 5 pounds it's  pretty much weightless and what that  means is you can take that weightless  solar panel and you can start mounting  it on your Bimini right you can put it  on your canvas because easily you can't  start putting I know 3 200 watt solar  panels on your existing Bimini and just  hope that the canvas maker was expecting  that you'd be putting in another 200  pounds of solar panels on that Bimini  structure but if it's flexible it's only  another 15 pounds so it makes the  decision of putting huge solar arrays on  large Bimini's easy because they're  practically weightless you'll see when  you're walking through the show or you  see other boats there's multiple ways of  mounting these solar panels on your  canvas on my boat and that's the picture  of my boat right there I use zippers on  all four sides there's some people that  are actually bolting them through  literally putting a nut and a washer  you'll see that iverson down below  there's people that use velcro there's  people that use snaps I've seen owners  that take bungee take it on and off  there is a wide selection of choices on  how you go about mounting a flexible  solar panel onto canvas I'm not gonna  offline if you're curious about pros and  cons I have an opinion but again you  know what that's to the owner of the  boat to decide what's the best way of  doing it on their boat you can see that  in the picture flexible solar panels are  wafer thin I mean they're less than a  thickness than a quarter they're more  like maybe a nickel in thickness a  little bit more than a dime there  then they're very very thin so the other  thing that they do is they can actually  follow a curve and I have to say when we  started doing solar panels about 10  years ago I would have never thought  that more than half of our market would  be power builders because in the past  most power motors would it be pretty  rare to see a power boat with rigid  solar panels and ultimately what it does  is it changes the line of your boat as a  boater you have to ask yourself and  that's what most bolts their curves it's  all curves there's very few straight  lines on boats  you know mass is an exception a boom yes  but after that on a powerboat think  about it everything is just curves  there's very few straight lines and the  beauty of a solar panel and I give this  a lot from power boaters and sail herbs  as they say Jeff I don't want the look  of my boat to be any different I love  the way she looks  I love the profile of the boat and if  you can give me solar but keep the look  of the boat the same I'm interested in  talking I don't want it to look too  functional I want it to be functional  but I don't want to look functional I  want it to be aesthetic and I still want  to have the gains and that's one of the  considerations was flexible and that's  why for example that north oven owner is  covering all his awning on a 65 and he  literally told me says my partner does  not want to see solar she doesn't want  to see it if we can put it on and it  looks pretty I'm good with it but we  love the look of our boat make sure that  the flexible solar panels just blend in  the other thing too that we end up doing  is you can actually buy these solar  panels with peel and stick adhesive and  you can actually literally without doing  any deck penetrations which is a concern  or should be a concern to all of us  literally peel and stick the solar  panels onto hard tops so I'm doing sea  rates that have you know sea raised  flybridge that have these huge hard tops  I did a 560 we covered the whole roof  with solar panels again easy no holes  we're not worrying about any sort of  water intrusion and the probe  the boat looks the same so you can  actually peel and stick it we even did a  Laguna 50 huge 56 Lagoon the whole brow  on the front like we literally put a  thousand watts of solar panel on the  brow nobody could really step there is  sort of angle you wouldn't go there and  we actually peeled and stick all these  solar panels right on the brow a  question up front  [Music]  the question from the gentleman up front  is what about the relative lifespan of  solar panels flexible versus rigid in my  experience my boat I have Sol bian solar  panels now for 8 years my output is  still quantified I measure it every day  like I'm a geek I'm an engineer so I  sort of need to justify all the money  that I spent to someone else  so I have the proof right there my solar  panels are still doing exactly what they  were eight years ago the one thing to  consider if the solar panel was well  built and that's a question like  anything the solar panel everything is  basically almost it's enveloped in epoxy  like there is no place to access that  panel like it is literally covered in  epoxy so there's no weather damage that  can happen to that solar panel if the  solar panel was well built at the  beginning five years down the road or  ten years down the road it's still going  to be well built the problem is some  boaters are tempted by lowest price and  they're thinking they're getting a deal  and you know I get it as a boater we all  want a deal of course we do the problem  is not so much what you pay is what  you're going to get out over time and  that's where then on the cheap end of  the spectrum the feel-good purchase the  one that wasn't hard to do but it's  probably two years you'll see a lot of  yellowing of the epoxy because it's not  meant like the really good ones have a  20 year life the budget ones are going  lowest cost possible they're thinking it  needs to look good today but tomorrow is  someone else's problem right some solar  panels are offering five years warranty  full replacement the other really  interesting thing and I think it's worth  remembering is that when you consider  solar panels especially if you're not  just looking at the budget selection  which is worth considering I mean  there's nothing wrong with that you make  a choice but in the end what's  interesting about a company like gioco  or Sol bein or Solera  and there's a lot of different companies  out there is all the permutations of  sizes the challenge as a boater is we're  not putting solar panels on a roof  where it's an open canvas right where  you have endless choice to put the solar  panels  you've got no constraints no windows no  backstays no hatches  you've got endless space that's easy you  could just say I'm gonna buy a bunch of  hundreds hundred watts and I'm just  gonna stack them on a boat you have a  lot of constraints things are in the way  and so what we ended up doing is we'll  have let's say in our shop we have about  30 different solar panel sizes and what  you're doing is you're playing a little  bit of a game of Tetris  you're trying to say I wanna had an  owner last week said to me he has a  catamaran I want 800 watts of solar  panel but then the game is how do we get  800 watts of solar panel on the space  that he has available right it's not  like oh I just choose a panel and make  it work you know the panel's might be a  little bit too long a little bit too  short so a little bit too short but then  we miss 2 feet that we could have done  so what we end up doing is playing with  these different sort of permutations on  our website if you're curious there's  all these different dimensions there's  multiple vendors out there that sell  solar panels that's up to you but  educate yourself it there's a lot of  choice to maximize your solar array if  you choose that's important for you okay  now we also do boats with rigid no doubt  you know for example if you're a power  sail boater and you already have a nice  solar arch on your boat right it's  already there it's built or call it a  radar arch and you've got space like for  example think about catamaran owners  that have a at the back they have sort  of a dinghy davit huge area where we can  mount rigid solar panels right it's  right there it's sort of overhanging in  the back we're not gonna do flexible  we're gonna put a bunch of 300 Watts we  did we are also in the RV market  I had a boater well not a boarder an RV  or from Arizona brought is our V to us  and we ended up literally doing a bunch  of 330s literally put four or five of  them on top of the RV the hardtop right  right over so it depends if you have a  space to mount those rigid solar panels  and if you can handle the weight  so those are the considerations because  if you don't have a radar arch on your  boat let's say a sailboat that is not a  low-cost item that is not $100 $1000  line-item depending on the shop that  you're going to get if you get it built  in stainless I mean these that's it's a  big boat unit it's not a small boat unit  small boat unit being a thousand dollars  it's a big boat unit okay so that's  something else to consider it does it  make sense am i comfortable we're doing  right now at Pacific sea craft that's in  the Carolinas at the factory they're  going with an arch but it's a choice  it's it's you've got to decide the pros  and cons you certainly going to spend  way less per watt on a rigid solar panel  than you will on a flexible quality to  quality if you buy you know the best  quality on rigid the best quality on  flexible it's going to be a huge ratio  in terms of price huge ratio okay you  could be at least three times four times  more expensive for flexible yes question  in the back  tolerant of having sale material over  the top of it intermittent  yeah that's a good question in the back  was if I've got you're putting solar  panels let's say on top of a Dodger and  we have a sailboat and the sales are  gonna drag on top of the solar panels is  it better do you rigid or flexible I  would probably say rigid rigid is glass  flexible is epoxy right it's sort of a  concoction I think that's gonna scratch  easier than glass on my boat for example  I have never used a brush on my solar  panels ever ever because the moment it's  sort of like brushing a pan a non-skid  pan the moment use that brush on the  non-skid pan you're gonna be brushing  that non-skid ban all the time I just  simply use water and a hose to wash off  the debris if there's any like we'll  have a lot of Poland in the summer for  example or dust when the forest fires  were around there's a lot literally of  ash I'm just simply gonna wash it down I  have never brushed my solar panels once  but also nothing sticks to it because I  want it to be perfectly smooth again an  example of rigid solar panels there's so  much choice with rigid tons the problem  is on the budget for flexible very  little choice if you're not budget then  you can start having a lot of  permutations so again to repeat I  sometimes have motors that say to me I  really am cost conscious I really wanted  the lowest price solar panel option for  me I'm like okay we're gonna look for  budget solar panels but then they're  like oh I also want a 400 watt array and  then you look at this space  configuration then they have on their  boat and it cannot be done it just  cannot be done and then the owner by  default says I still want 400 I didn't  want to spend money now I'm not spending  money because I'm just don't care I just  have to if I want 400 watt it's the only  way of doing it is with different size  dimensions a narrow or skinnier longer  more rectangular so you'll have more  permutations on the higher-end solar  panels another question from the  gentleman up front  no this question is are you if you're  avoiding brushing solar panels can you  are you avoiding walking on them now a  flexible solar panel in the name says  non rigid right it means it's not a  bridge okay a flexible solar panel will  not span a distance with a hole  underneath and provide any rigidity it's  not a bridge that means if you have  solar panels that are flexible you need  a perfectly smooth deck beneath  perfectly smooth  that doesn't mean anti-skid because the  dimples between anti-skid are maybe yeah  I don't know in inches maybe 1/16 I'm  thinking in mils there maybe 4 mils 3  mils that is a bridge because a solar  panel is the thinness the wires of  thinness of a human hair it's not a  bridge so when we mount them and we're  gonna walk on them for example that  catamaran we actually ended up smoothing  all that anti-skid away right so that  the solar panel is perfectly perfectly  smooth that's another panel what's  underneath and then you can walk on it  because the solar panel is not acting as  a bridge it's not feeling any gaps  now not all four panels can be walked on  you have to buy a solar panel that says  it can and again you'll spend more money  with those panels okay you just got to  do your homework ask the right questions  like this gentleman did here right look  for it say you know what I have holder  sometimes that have solar panels I had  an order says sometimes my daughter's  are going on top of the roof to jump off  the boat and I want them to be able to  walk on I'm like it's gonna be slippery  he's like yeah that's fine but can they  walk on the solar panel like yeah yeah  but it's gonna be slippery he's like  yeah I'm like I'm warning you it's  slippery he's like yeah yeah I'll get  well they've been didn't test three  times  we're good I mean it's just your  daughter's no big deal look what's the  worst that could happen but what you  want to do is you absolutely want to  have a smooth surface okay  smooth surface below so the next big  dilemma is a bowler when you're looking  at solar panels you're saying okay Jeff  I'm hearing this term monocrystalline  all the time and I'm hearing Paulo  polycrystalline all the time what's the  big difference ultimately it comes down  to efficiency meaning a monocrystalline  panel is going to give you more power  for any given size so for example if you  looked at the back of this laptop let's  say and you said I've got a this area  here if it was a hundred watts of so  this would probably be 10 watts of solar  panel it'd be 10 watts with mono and the  zyg exact same size would be 8 watts  with poly that means a poly panel will  not give you as much output for any  given size now you might ask well Jeff  why in God's world would I choose less  output when I can have more the  trade-off is money you're gonna spend  way more money on a model panel over a  poly panel so now you know some owners  for example in boaters are saying Jeff  I've got way more canvas or surface to  mount solar panels than I need solar in  that case what we end up doing is we end  up putting poly think about in the  countryside you build ranchers in the  cities you build high-rises right so if  I'm on a sailboat for example and he's a  purist he doesn't even have a Bimini he  has a doctor and he takes it down and he  has so little canvas  it's he's trying to be as low profile as  possible but he wants as much solar  panels as possible will end up doing a  mono solar panel on his dogger because  we're working with so little space right  and so that would be one of the  differentiators when you're making a  decision you're like I want a lot of  solar but I don't have the space for it  well then the way you do is you trade  money you could get you could do the  same amount of surface area with Paulie  but you'd have less power it's about  really it's about 80% of Paulie is what  a model could give you so if a model  gives you 100 the Paulie is gonna give  you only 80% of that for the same amount  of space so here's another way and I  remember this trick question one as a  kid grade five or something and the  teacher asked I still wanted to be an  engineer back then  you know what's heavier a ton of bricks  or a ton of feathers I was like bricks  epic fail it's a ton a ton is a ton does  it matter now how much space does a ton  of feathers take versus a ton of bricks  big difference so a hundred watt poly  panel is going to be bigger than a  hundred watt mono panel right because if  it's less than sufficient you need more  space to do the same amount of work  here's an example of a boat trawlers  where we're doing on the brow I've done  a lot of boats actually this last summer  where power boaters in behind in between  sort of the lower helm in the upper helm  they have this sort of brow and that's a  place that's nobody ever walks on right  because it's angled it's not really safe  and so we're covering those areas with  solar panels and they're not notice  they're not perfectly the the best  neutral position for a solar panel is  obviously if you're gonna average right  you're gonna put it basically parallel  to the ground right so that the Sun on  average is going to be moving like this  over the horizon now some people say  wouldn't it be better to move my solar  panels as the Sun moves around I'm like  absolutely if you have endless labor and  you can set delegate that task yes  absolutely now remember your boots your  bow is also moving like this at anchor  probably so then you're constantly going  like now that is a full-time job so the  best way is to simply go for neutral  parallel to the water right and as the  Sun rises you're not gonna have great as  the Sun sets not great when it's going  to be overhead it's gonna be better and  you're taking law of averages this boat  here obviously if the Sun is behind is  not going to be getting good solar  output because it's angled away okay but  it's a compromise yes question  yeah that's correct the question for the  gentlemen was good question yes that  solar panel install if the sun's coming  from the aft look at that Bimini it's  gonna provide chaining you know what  honestly if you want perfection you  can't be building there is no such thing  as perfect boat  period I don't care how much it doesn't  matter I mean you could be a billionaire  there's a few in this town and they're  spending money like there's no tomorrow  on boats and there's no such boat that  says yeah that's a perfect boat it's  just another boat full of compromises  every single one of our boats is a boat  full of compromises you're just it  doesn't matter regardless of money  you're just you can't have this or that  your and that's what makes it so  interesting to everyone because what are  you chose are you gonna make with what  you have and what you can do right so  here I'm gonna there's a lot remember  these presentations are going on our  website on the media page I'm gonna show  the link a little bit later but I'm just  saying don't get fooled and think that  the lowest price solar panel is the best  value it's like a car the least  expensive car is not the best car the  most expensive car is not the best car  somewhere in middle is where you're  gonna find the sweet spot for value what  you pay and your ROI right so Louis is  good in some ways highest is good in  some ways but in the middle 80% of the  voters we deal with are gonna find sort  of like that normal alleyway they're not  going to be drawing the McLaren and  they're not going to be drawing the  least expensive car they found on  Craigslist they're finding a happy  medium okay and those are things to  consider about when you're getting solar  panels one of the things I want to talk  about this is generally you can tell a  quality solar panel from a non quali  simply by looking at it I remember one  year we had really good solar panels in  our booth and people are telling me Jeff  you need to offer a budget panel this is  about six years ago we brought the  lowest cost panel you could buy I'm like  they want it let's give it to them that  year's the year that we sold more  expensive solar panels than I've ever  sold in my entire life it was like a  factor of five it was through the roof  because they saw  comparison when you see them  side-by-side you're like oh that's what  I get for this I'm gonna have that so  just do your homework look at what  budget looks like and look at non budget  and you'd be like okay yeah yeah I get  it  just do your homework here's another  example on a sailboat half cabin notice  that solar panels are installed on  canvas and you can then remove the  canvas right so I see that on some  boaters they're actually just easy and I  have owners that are storing the solar  panels let's either in Mexico right not  everyone stays in the Pacific Northwest  although it's beautiful here big fan and  people are sailing offshore they'll be  literally putting this out there they're  solar panels when they're leaving  they're both there for maybe six months  and they just want to clean everything  keep it as sort of empty as possible  they'll put their solar panels remember  the thickness literally under their  their bed the the mattress you can't  feel it it's other than a junction box  which is about about a centimeter not an  inch I'd say maybe over half an inch a  little bit over but the rest of the  solar panel is you can't feel it  I mean it's less it's about this  thickness of a nickel okay so to recap  what we talked about a little bit you  know what when you're thinking about  solar and I give this all the time about  multiple questions what are your goals  with solar right let's I mean we're  getting solar but why are we doing it  people say I want a solar I'm like ah  first question is about what are we  trying to do right because there's an  engineer we've got to ask ourselves what  are we trying to solve so one common one  and I get that because we deal with even  boaters that have boats on mooring balls  everywhere Jeff I have a boat I'm not at  the boat all the time but when I come on  the weekends and it's on a mooring ball  I can't have a battery charger but I  want my batteries topped off right I  want them to be flow charging okay we'll  put a small reasonably sauce small solar  array just to maintain the batteries  it's like being connected to shore power  I even owners that do that with boats on  the hard in the winter time in not a  barn but in a field where there's no  shore power at all actually happens to a  bunch of my clients are in Washington  State they're bringing their boats back  in land in the wintertime they can't  connect the shore power but they don't  want to remove  batteries it's a hassle but they want to  maintain them we'll do a solar array  just so they can maintain their  batteries in the winter time that way  they don't have to take the batteries  off because a battery that is  unmaintained for a period of time like  eight months will sulfate and a battery  that sulfate is the battery that will  die prematurely so if you don't like  changing your battery banks too  frequently you want to have your  batteries on some sort of charging  regiment the other one too which I did  on my boat I said okay I want solar to  offset everything I use every day on my  boat I don't ever want to worry about  power again I'm done I want to sail when  I can sail I don't ever want to think  about having to go back to shore power I  never want to run my engine on idle I  just want my fridge in my lights to run  in the summer off solar period right so  then you go I want all my amp power  consumption just to be taken care of one  year about five years ago we lost our  alternator meaning it stopped outputting  it happened in late May we did not  change the alternator or repair it till  the end of September didn't need it  don't need an alternator don't have we  come up to marinas people would say do  you want to pay extra for you know a  plug-in I'm like plug in for no don't  need it I'm fine they're like you don't  want to recharge your batteries don't  need to we'd leave our boat at a  destination marina and we leave it there  for a week two weeks the fridge would be  running the food would stay cold and we  would even plugged in so every day the  marina would have charged us something  no need to plug in now I can't do that  in the wintertime in the wintertime I  can maintain my batteries but I can't  run a fridge in this type of weather in  January December when it's sort of  Noah's event happening outside  one last thing I saw a question the  other thing to offset refrigeration is  really popular and the last one is I  want to state longer a tanker Jeff I  can't add more batteries on my boat I  don't want to I know the implications  that I have to change my charger my  alternator I'm just looking at can you  find a way to give me another day in  Anchorage you know like right now I'm  staying two days if I could stay a third  day in the summer without running my  engine and then I'm leave the Anchorage  and I go to another destination give me  another day anchor without changing my  electrical system that's a really common  one that's probably that in  refrigeration or my to number one sort  of request that I get from boaters on  what they were trying to do it's over I  had a question up front so how many ones  did you choose the question is how many  watts that I end up choosing patients  and will come I've got a little formula  it will come I'll tell you the formula  yes go ahead the last one extend your  time and Anchorage isn't that basically  the same as offset in your daily  what's the distinction yeah the question  is while Jeff isn't offsetting your time  at extending your time at Anchorage and  by an extra day or staying there and  definitely the same it isn't because one  is I'm actually let's say I'm offsetting  every day I'm out putting everything I  need for my day plus some right if I'm  using 190 hours a day  my solar array is giving me a hundred  125 if I'm extending an extra day every  day I'm going in a deficit but my  deficit is not going down as slowly so I  might be doing 50 amp hours a day and so  the first day I'm not going to go as low  as used to go second day I'm going to go  a little bit deeper but not as low as I  used to be and the third day then I'm  gonna go to where I used to be on the  second day but I'm offsetting right so  you're probably asking well Jeff how the  hell am I gonna find out you know when  my daily amp hour is a yes well if you  don't know one way to know is having a  battery monitor onboard right that's a  sort of knowing what your burn rate is  you know when we plan for a retirement  one of the first questions someone's  gonna ask is how much money do I need  for retirement they're gonna what's your  burn rate how much are you gonna need  per year are you gonna need 20,000 a  year you're gonna need 100 are you gonna  need 200 what's the number and then you  start you got and know how much money  you plan on spending when you retire and  so when you size battery banks you size  everything on a boat you need to know  what your daily and power consumption  now you can choose to ignore that number  but welcome to a world of pain it's like  retiring not knowing how much money you  spend  oh you know I saved X let's see what  happens yeah things are really not  working out you know I'm thinking I'm  going to become a greeter again you know  I'm a liar walmart is hiring well if you  didn't know how much money you're  spending saving for retirement is only  part of the equation you've got to be  able to foresee what your burn rate is  otherwise you're going to be complaining  about your batteries are dying  prematurely things are not working out  the fridge is dying your food is time we  got to go back to the dock you know all  these other things so a daily amp our  budget is essential to make all these  decisions good news  through experience again being invited  to work on all of your boats I can guess  what you're out  budget is if you come to see me at the  end of the class you tell me what kind  of boat you have what you do I've been  on enough boats I've been thanked you  been invited enough boats to know what a  daily AMP our budget is on average per  person you know a little bit of  experience pays off so no no need to  worry  here's another example on a catamaran I  was talking to one of our clients as  this morning 55 footer we did something  similar where we ended up doing sort of  a stainless steel structure at the back  to provide more coverage from the rain  because they're going up north you know  to Alaska and we covered that extra  coverage right with more solar panels in  this case is just stainless because it's  not raining in certain parts of the  world but over here if you're going up  north in the summer you have to be  willing to have a little bit of rain in  cloud Alaska and northern British  Columbia is not always sunny even in the  summertime so here's the calculation on  how to figure watts from amp hours there  is a long formula and if you want to  geek out I can share with you but  luckily there is a shorthand and if you  say for example I have a hundred watt  solar panel right how many amp hours is  not going to give me add a 100 watt  solar panel is going to be a hundred  watts divided by four will give you 25  amp hours a day and yes there's a typo  in there if you can pick it up 100 times  20 is not 25  so basically the math is if you buy a  hundred watt solar panel you're gonna  get 25 amp hours a day let's say it's a  400 watt solar panel there's no such  thing but let's say it's a 400 watt  solar array  how many amp hours a day will that  produce about a hundred amp hours you  can go the other way around you say Jeff  I have a 75 amp hour budget on my boat  so that would be a very modest boat  running a refrigerator  nothing fancy some lights a water pump  right sailboat low 40s high 30s very  modest no heaters no TVs no televisions  no running inverters no hair dryers  like sort of a Luddite with a fridge and  some lights and a water pump and you say  Jeff I want to run indefinitely at  anchor in the summer you're gonna do 75  times four equals 300 you need a 300  watt array for your book that's it you  can imagine now the north oven or the  this big catamaran that I did that's  doing a 2000 watt solar array that means  that they're burning 509th hours a day  right some boats draw a lot of power  that's why these huge catamarans are  sort of floating mansions have massive  solar arrays because they have multiple  fridges they have lots of lights  they have inverters right same thing  with it big north oven II we were we're  doing solar up to about 6070 you know  even on 70 footers we're putting them up  there trying to reduce their generator  runtime now that number is realistic  this is not a number that says oh this  was on the best day it's sort of like my  financial planner told me that my  returns were gonna be double-digit  forever you know and I'm looking at my  savings my 401 K and I'm like what the  hell this has not panned out this is a  realistic number in the Pacific  Northwest in the summer from May to  September on some days I get way better  I've seen the number up to about two  point seven two point seven which is  ridiculous that means that is a hell of  an output so if I get for example and  on my boat which is 450 watts and I  divide that by 2.7 let's call it 3 but  it's way better than 3 that means I got  150 amp hours of solar output a day that  is like that's like being a professional  hockey player or NFL player it's like  let's make it rain drinks on the house  let's do it you've got 115 amp hours of  output and you're only burned 75 you got  no problems run the inverter keep the TV  on do whatever you want  it's the sun's giving us the energy if  you don't use it it's just being wasted  that's what's so amazing about solar and  in case you're wondering why the hell  we'll use such a big array is because I  was worried about the shoulder season  because we boat all year round and I  wanted my solar array to work from March  until end of October so I've got more  capacity than I did in the summer but it  literally when we go out for Easter we  invite friends were six of us on a  Catalina 36 and we're fine and that and  Easter is March April and we've got  enough of a solar array to run that boat  and we have two refrigerators because a  lot of people so will bring this sort of  a little cooler and we're good here's an  example of solar panels on a brow here's  an example on a hardtop and here's a  diagram and we're close to wrapping up  here's a diagram of what solar panels  look - a dedicated controller or solar  panels in series that's when you have  two solar panels where the voltage are  adding together right and you have one  controller so you can do that you can  you can run them dedicated to controller  in series to a dedicated controller or  in parallel I'm not going to go in the  reasons why parallel I have a little bit  of aversion to it's generally what to do  with voltage drop and also what happens  with amperage but if you wanted coals an  old version go dedicated or go series  okay if you're curious on why the wise  take longer than the what's we could be  here all day if I told you all the wise  don't mind asking or answering  afterwards but I don't want people  running for the exits so here's an  example of  solar panels in series versus solar  panels in parallel you notice in  parallel it's a little bit like series  think about two golf cart batteries two  golf cart batteries are six volts you  are positive to negative to make it 12  volts if you have two 12-volt batteries  on your boat and you want a larger Bank  you go positive to positive negative to  negative right parallel is positive to  positive negative to negative series is  positive to negative yeah that's right  yeah the voltage is add up which is not  a bad thing for series because it  offsets voltage drop again I feel free  to ask questions sometimes I'm you know  to be in the back there for an hour just  feel free bring it on  no problem I'll answer any question you  want there is some reason to my magic  yes question is it better to have two  small panels versus a big one  no in the costs on a smaller panel is  the larger the panel the law the less  cost per watt is so you would generally  go with a bigger panel if you can yeah  there's reasons that redundancy why you  would do single controllers and there's  also reasons of shading why you would do  single controllers okay everything is  easy until you do something everybody is  easy to criticize anybody doing a sport  you put skates on you play golf you do  anything you're like oh my god wait  harder than I thought just can I can  trust you if you're gonna do solar on  your boat research research research do  it once versus improvise MacGyver and  then go off I wish I knew that before I  wouldn't have done all those decisions  do not go in the well of despair I see  people going down the well of despair  too often  right just getting busy and doing things  don't always pan out that's a little bit  on the wire of the solar panels you'll  see that there BC it you can't see from  the image but it's actually double  jacketed when you buy solar wiring it  looks like a gauge 8 but it's actually a  gauge 10 the jacket is double the  thickness and it's made for outdoor  rated so it will not actually in the Sun  and then the rain you can't put indoor  wiring outside you just can't  the Sun is a cruel cruel as we all know  there's a little bit of Sun is good too  much Sun is not a good thing and the  were meant to be outside we also end up  hiding the wires in these wire looms  right so people don't like seeing wires  I'm very aesthetically driven it's  expensive to be aesthetically driven  cause always more to make things pretty  but it's a boat if you know I tell  people if it was in a boat it'd be a  barge barge can look ugly you know it  doesn't matter if it's not pretty it  doesn't matter but a boat it's gotta  look pretty right I mean we generally  all love our boats I certainly do  so I care about how it looks on the  outside I don't want to look too  functional these are the connectors that  connect solar panels and you'll notice  you can actually connect them or  disconnect them right  they're called mc4 connectors and here's  another image that's kind of neat  those are how we get the wires inside  the boat because it's one thing to have  a solar array outside the boat how do  you get it inside the boat and you do  with these cable entries deck clamps and  I'm just going to show this as the last  slide and then we're gonna go in the  back just to recap think about why you  do solar right to think about the number  that you're gonna calculate think about  if you're gonna go flexible or rigid  pros and cons rigid is more expensive  than flexible but flexible will not  affect the look of your boat and also  the weight and when you're doing the  installation of the solar panels make  sure you use outdoor rated cabling so  with that I'm going to close the  presentation and if anybody has further  questions I'll be in the back thank you  everyone for being here I really  appreciate it questions in the back  you